mermaidcamp

mermaidcamp

Keeping current in wellness, in and out of the water

You can scroll the shelf using and keys

Henry Stafford, Second Duke Of Buckingham

July 31, 2018 1 Comment

Henry Stafford, Duke of Buckingham

Henry Stafford, Duke of Buckingham

Henry Stafford, Second Duke of Buckingham, (1454-1483), was the son of Humphrey Stafford, killed at the first battle of St. Albans in 1455, and grandson of Humphrey the 1st Duke (cr. 1444), killed at Northampton in 1460, both fighting for Lancaster. The first duke, who bore the title of Earl of Buckingham in right of his mother, was the son of Edmund, 5th Earl of Stafford, and of Anne, daughter of Thomas, Duke of Gloucester, youngest son of Edward III; Henry’s mother was Margaret Beaufort, daughter of Edmund Beaufort, 2nd Duke of Somerset,* grandson of John of Gaunt. Thus he came on both sides of the Blood Royal, and this, coupled with the vastness of his inheritance, made the young duke’s future of importance to Edward IV.

He was recognized as duke in 1465, and next year was married to Catherine Woodville, the queen’s [Elizabeth Woodville] sister. On reaching manhood he was made a Knight of the Garter in 1474, and in 1478 was high steward at the trial of George, Duke of Clarence. He had not otherwise filled any position of importance, but his fidelity might seem to have been secured by his marriage. However, after Edward’s death; Buckingham was one of the first persons worked upon by Richard, Duke of Gloucester. It was through his help that Richard obtained possession of the young king [Edward V], and he was at once rewarded with the offices of Justiciar and Chamberlain of North and South Wales, and Constable of all the royal castles in the principality and Welsh Marches. In the proceedings which led to the deposition of Edward V he took a prominent part, and on the 24th of June 1483 he urged the citizens at the Guildhall to take Richard as king, in a speech of much eloquence, “for he was neither unlearned and of nature marvellously well spoken” (Sir Thomas More).

At Richard’s coronation he served as chamberlain, and immediately afterwards was made Constable of England and confirmed in his powers in Wales. Richard might well have believed that the duke’s support was secured. But early in August Buckingham withdrew from the court to Brecon. He may have thought that he deserved an even greater reward, or possibly had dreams of establishing his own claims to the crown. At all events, at Brecon he fell somewhat easily under the influence of his prisoner, John Morton, who induced him to give his support to his cousin Henry Tudor, Earl of Richmond. A widespread plot was soon formed, but Richard had early warning, and on the 15th of October, issued a proclamation against Buckingham. Buckingham, as arranged, prepared to enter England with a large force of Welshmen. His advance was stopped by an extraordinary flood on the Severn, his army melted away without striking a blow, and he himself took refuge with a follower, Ralph Bannister, at Lacon Hall, near Wem. The man betrayed him for a large reward, and on the 1st of November, Buckingham was brought to the king at Salisbury. Richard refused to see him, and after a summary trial had him executed next day (2nd of November 1483), though it was a Sunday.

Buckingham’s eldest son, Edward Stafford (1478-1521), eventually succeeded him as 3rd Duke, the attainder being removed in 1485; the second son, Henry, was afterwards Earl of Wiltshire. The 3rd Duke played an important part as Lord High Constable at the opening of the reign of Henry VIII, and is introduced into Shakespeare’s play of that king, but he fell through his opposition to Wolsey, and in 1521 was condemned for treason and executed (17th of May); the title was then forfeited with his attainder, his only son Henry (1501-1563), who in his father’s lifetime was styled Earl of Stafford, being, however, given back his estates in 1522, and in 1547 restored in blood by parliament with the title of Baron Stafford, which became extinct in this line with Roger, 5th Baron, in 1640. In that year the barony of Stafford was granted to William Howard (1614-1680), who after two months was created Viscount Stafford; he was beheaded in 1680, and his son was created Earl of Stafford in 1688, a title which became extinct in 1762; but in 1825 the descent to the barony of 1640 was established, to the satisfaction of the House of Lords, in the person of Sir G. W. Jerningham, in whose family it then continued

  • [AJ Note: not to be confused with the more famous Margaret Beaufort, daughter of John Beaufort, first Duke of Somerset.]
Henry Stafford Duke of Buckingham (1454 – 1483)
17th great-grandfather
Edward Richard Buckingham Stafford (1479 – 1521)
Son of Henry Stafford Duke of Buckingham
Elizabeth Dutchess Norfolk Stafford Howard (1497 – 1558)
Daughter of Edward Richard Buckingham Stafford
Lady Katherine Howard Duchess Bridgewater (1495 – 1554)
Daughter of Elizabeth Dutchess Norfolk Stafford Howard
William ApRhys (1522 – 1588)
Son of Lady Katherine Howard Duchess Bridgewater
Henry Rice (1555 – 1621)
Son of William ApRhys
Edmund Rice (1594 – 1663)
Son of Henry Rice
Edward Rice (1622 – 1712)
Son of Edmund Rice
Lydia Rice (1649 – 1723)
Daughter of Edward Rice
Lydia Woods (1672 – 1738)
Daughter of Lydia Rice
Lydia Eager (1696 – 1735)
Daughter of Lydia Woods
Mary Thomas (1729 – 1801)
Daughter of Lydia Eager
Joseph Morse III (1756 – 1835)
Son of Mary Thomas
John Henry Morse (1775 – 1864)
Son of Joseph Morse III
Abner Morse (1808 – 1838)
Son of John Henry Morse
Daniel Rowland Morse (1838 – 1910)
Son of Abner Morse
Jason A Morse (1862 – 1932)
Son of Daniel Rowland Morse
Ernest Abner Morse (1890 – 1965)
Son of Jason A Morse
Richard Arden Morse (1920 – 2004)
Son of Ernest Abner Morse
Pamela Morse
I am the daughter of Richard Arden Morse

Henry Stafford, 2nd Duke of Buckingham, KG (4 September 1455 – 2 November 1483) played a major role in King Richard III’s rise and fall.  He is also one of the primary suspects in the disappearance (and presumed murder) of the Princes in the Tower. Buckingham was related to the royal family of England in many different ways, but his connections were all through daughters of younger sons. His chances of inheriting the throne would have seemed remote, but he played the role of a ‘kingmaker’ for Richard III and, unsuccessfully, for Henry VII

Buckingham was the son of Humphrey Stafford, Earl of Stafford, and Margaret Beaufort, Countess of Stafford. Three of his four grandparents were descended from Edward III of England:
Buckingham’s paternal grandfather was Humphrey Stafford, 1st Duke of Buckingham, who was the son of Anne of Gloucester, daughter of Thomas of Woodstock, 1st Duke of Gloucester, the youngest son of Edward III.
Buckingham’s paternal grandmother was Lady Anne Neville, a daughter of Joan Beaufort, Countess of Westmorland, while Buckingham’s maternal grandfather was Edmund Beaufort, 2nd Duke of Somerset, the youngest son of John Beaufort, 1st Earl of Somerset. John and Joan Beaufort were illegitimate children of John of Gaunt, 1st Duke of Lancaster, (the third son of Edward III) and Katherine Swynford. (They were later legitimized by John of Gaunt but were not in the direct line and could not claim the throne).

Thus, Buckingham was closely related to the royal families of England and Scotland. Five of his near relations became King of England – his (Lancaster) second cousin, once removed Henry VI, his (Beaufort/Neville) first cousins, once removed Edward IV and Richard III, his second cousin Edward V, and his (Beaufort/Holland) second cousin, once removed Henry VII – while two relations became Queen consorts of England: his (Beauchamp) first cousin, once removed (and Beaufort/Neville second cousin) Lady Anne Neville and his (Beaufort/Neville) second cousin, Elizabeth of York. His (Beaufort/Holland) first cousin, once removed was James II of Scotland.

His father, Humphrey Stafford, Earl of Stafford, supported the House of Lancaster in the initial phase of the Wars of the Roses. He died in 1458 of wounds after First Battle of St Albans, and his paternal grandfather, Humphrey Stafford, 1st Duke of Buckingham, another leading Lancastrian, was killed at the Battle of Northampton (10 July 1460). After his grandfather’s death, Henry was recognized as Duke of Buckingham. The new Duke eventually became a ward of Queen Elizabeth Woodville, consort of Edward IV of England.

Sometime before the Queen’s coronation in May 1465 he was married to her sister Catherine Woodville, Duchess of Buckingham and Bedford (b.1458). Both parties were children at the time; they were carried on squires’ shoulders at the coronation ceremony and were reared in the queen’s household together. According to Dominic Mancini, Buckingham resented his wife and the other Woodvilles because of his marriage to a woman of a lower status.

In 1483, a conspiracy arose among a number of disaffected gentry, supporters of Edward IV. They originally planned to depose Richard III and place Edward V back on the throne. When rumours arose that Edward and his brother (the Princes in the Tower) were dead, Buckingham intervened, proposing instead that Henry Tudor return from exile, take the throne and marry Elizabeth of York. For his part, Buckingham would raise a substantial force from his estates in Wales and the Marches.

Richard eventually put down the rebellion; Henry’s ships ran into a storm and had to go back to Brittany, and Buckingham’s army was greatly troubled by the same storm and deserted when Richard’s forces came against them. Buckingham tried to escape in disguise but was turned in for the bounty Richard had put on his head, and he was convicted of treason and beheaded in Salisbury on 2 November. A monument in nearby Britford Church has been identified as his. Following Buckingham’s execution, his widow, Catherine, married Jasper Tudor.

Nicholas Sotherton Mayor of Norwich 11th Great-Grandfather

July 12, 2018 3 Comments

Nicholas (Mayor) Sotherton Nicholas (Mayor) Sotherton

My eleventh great-grandfather, Nicholas Sotherton, was a grocer by trade. He married Agnes, by whom he had six sons and five daughters.

Nicholas was sheriff in 1530 and Mayor in 1539. For twelve years he was a magistrate over which period he amassed a considerable fortune. He owned properties in both the Maddermarket parish (Strangers Hall), Hellesdon and Ludham

The Sothertons moved to the “Strangers Hall” after Thomas Caus. The property is now open to the public who can view Nicholas’s handiwork.. In particular in the 1530s he installed a crown-post roof and a stone-mullioned bay window in the Great Hall. He also had the external stone steps and porch built to give direct access to the hall without passing through the cellars beneath. Sotherton’s merchant’s mark and coat of arms can still be seen on the screen and on the carved roof timbers.
He has also left his merchant’s mark carved on the right-hand side of the oak fireplace beam in the “Sotherton Room.”

The undercroft at Strangers’ Hall is thought to date from the 1320s when Ralph de Middelton owned a house on this site. The undercroft was used to securely store, and possibly display, goods for sale.

The house on this site was seen as a prestigious dwelling and many merchants and mayors made their mark on the building – remodelling and extending it to reflect their wealth and status.

It is thought that the Great Hall was built during the 15th century, when William Barley, a mercer (cloth merchant) lived here.

During the 16th century, the house was owned by Norwich grocer and mayor, Thomas Sotherton and it is as a result of his entrepreneurism that the house eventually became known as Strangers’ Hall.

The first ‘strangers’ were Dutch, Walloon and Flemish refugee weavers who fled the low countries in the 16th century as a result of the persecution of Dutch Calvinists by their Spanish (Catholic) rulers.

Under Elizabeth I, England was a Protestant country and so welcomed the refugees. The asylum seekers first settled in Sandwich, Kent, in 1565. However Thomas Sotherton was keen to encourage these skilled workers to settle in Norwich because their skills in textile weaving made the immigrants of immense economic value. Documents show that some may have lodged at Strangers’ Hall and much of the prosperity of Norfolk after this period can be traced to this influx of refugees.

The Sotherton family made extensive improvements to the house, installing the crown post roof and stone-mullioned bay window. The front door, vaulted porch and steps were added to give direct access to the Great Hall without passing through the cellars.

Nicholas died in 1540 and is buried in St John Maddermarket , Agnes survived until 1576. In his will Nicholas directed a priest “honest and well learned to sing for him and to preach the word of God for three years ”

From Website: Norwich Historic Churches
http://www.norwich-churches.org/monuments/Nicholas%20Sotherton%201540/Nicholas%20Sotherton.shtm

Nicholas (Mayor) Sotherton (1485 – 1540)
11th great-grandfather
Thomas Sotherton (1523 – 1583)
son of Nicholas (Mayor) Sotherton
Augustine Jarnigo Sotherton (1553 – 1585)
son of Thomas Sotherton
Elizabeth Southerton (1582 – 1628)
daughter of Augustine Jarnigo Sotherton
Margaret Warner (1615 – 1649)
daughter of Elizabeth Southerton
Captain William GARTON (1635 – 1709)
son of Margaret Warner
Margaret Garton (1678 – 1773)
daughter of Captain William GARTON
Thomas Morris (1730 – 1791)
son of Margaret Garton
Joanna Morris (1762 – 1839)
daughter of Thomas Morris
John Samuel Taylor (1798 – 1873)
son of Joanna Morris
William Ellison Taylor (1839 – 1918)
son of John Samuel Taylor
George Harvey Taylor (1884 – 1941)
son of William Ellison Taylor
Ruby Lee Taylor (1922 – 2008)
daughter of George Harvey Taylor
Pamela Morse
I am  the daughter of Ruby Lee Taylor

He and Agnes are buried at St. John Baptist’s Church in Madder-Market, where this very fancy monument can be found today:

St. John Baptist's Church in Madder-Market St. John Baptist’s Church in Madder-Market
 St. John Baptist's Church in Madder-Market St. John Baptist’s Church in Madder-Market

On a mural monument on the south side of the altar,
Effigies of a man and woman, Sotherton quartering Steward,Norwich city, and nebulé a chief quarterly, one and four, a lion of England, two and three or, two roses gul. on each quarter.
Lege, Vir, ac Uxor, Titulo Nicolaus et Agnes, Gente Sothertoni, Quos humus una tegit, Sexta ad viginti confecit Junius illam Nona November Luce peremit eum. Illum annus Domini qui quadragesimus auxit Mille et quingentos jussit adire deum. Octo hijs trigintaque Annos super addidit illa, Quos omnes Viduo vidit abire thoro, Ille Urbis fuerat Pretor cum viveret hujus, Et bis sex Capitum non sine laude Pater; E quibus occumbens natos sex, Filiolasque Quatuor, Uxori liquerat ille sue.
http://www.british-history.ac.uk/topographical-hist-norfolk/vol4/pp287-329

Princess Cleopatra, Pocahontas’s Sister

June 26, 2018 19 Comments

 

Cleopatra married Opechancanough who was her father’s adopted brother and her adopted uncle

Matachanna traveled to England to be with her half-sister, Pocohontas, before she died. Matachanna went back to Virginia where she lived and died.

Cleopatra Powhatan the Shawano was born in 1590, near Jamestown colony, and died in 1680

Cleopatra Powhatan was half sister of Pocahontas

Going back to the era of John Smith . . . In the late 1500s/early 1600s a Powatan chief name Wahunsunacock [one of numerous variant spellings] had united some 30 Alonquian tribes into a powerful confederation. He had created the empire through conquest and alliances. He actually ruled as an emperor, not just a tribal chief. When the Jamestown colonists arrived, Wahunsunacock’s domain encompassed the entire region that was to become Virginia. Wahunsunacock did not use a title other than chief of the Powhatans. The colonists referred to him as simply “The Powhatan”, denoting his position as emperor over numerous tribal chiefs of the Powhatan nation. The Powhatan was not friendly toward the colonists, seeing them as encroachers.

Wahunsunacock’s younger brother, or half-brother, Opechanacanough, was the tribal chief who captured John Smith. He immediately took the captive Smith to Emperor Wahunsunacock who imposed the death sentence. Tradition holds that Wahunsunacock’s daughter Matoaka “LIttle Snow Feather”, nicknamed Pocahantas or “Playful One”, pleaded for her father to spare John Smith’s life. Pocahantas became an emissary between her father and the colonists and as such was instrumental in providing the food which saved them during the hard winter. The colonists, in turn, showed their appreciation by capturing and holding Pocahantas for ransom. After they had extracted the full ransom from Wahunsunacock, then they forged an alliance with him by marrying Pocahantas to John Wolfe, a planter in the Jamestown colony who is credited with introducing tobacco as a cash crop.

That much is familiar history. Then comes the chapter that is really relevant to our family. At the death of the elderly Wahunsunacock, his younger brother [it’s uncertain if he was a brother or a half-brother] Opchanacanough became successor to Wahunsunacock as emperor. As such, he is frequently also called The Powhatan. To distinguish between the two men I have chosen to use the technically accurate term “Emperor” for Wahunsunacock and “Chief” for Opechanacanough, since Opechanacanough was promoted from a “chief” to succeed Wahunsunacock who had forged the “empire”. In reading other histories, however, it is necessary to note that some writers use the term Powhatan for both brothers interchangeably which is unnecessarily confusing and actually incorrect. Sometimes I get the impression that some genealogy researchers do not grasp that they are two different men.

Emperor Wahunsunacock perhaps had hundreds of wives and children. Several of them are noted in historical documents, but none so well as Pocahantas and, to our benefit, her sister Cleopatra. Not only was Cleopatra a daughter of the Emperor, she was wife to the successor Chief/Emperor Opechanacanough. Now if you were paying attention and recall that Opehanacanough and Wahusunacock were brothers/half-brothers, you might realize that she was also Opechanacanough’s niece [or half-niece as the case may be]. They were a royal dynasty and keep in mind that the family lineage was preserved by most Native Americans, as they still do now, through the matriarchal line.

The relationship of Cleopatra and Pocahantas as full sisters is fully documented. After the death of Pocahantas, Pcahantas’ son had to apply for rights to get to visit his Indian relatives and in his written legal request specifically asks to visit his “mother’s sister Cleopatra” by name. Cleopatra obviously was not her Indian name, but rather what she was called by the colonists because since her husband was the successor ruling Chief/Emperor she was in fact Queen. The title seemed especially apropos to the colonists since not only was she Queen, but her exotic dark looks and elaborate trappings also seemed very regal, and reminiscent of the Egyptian queen.

Only I and probably 30 million other people descend from this royal hierarchy. While everyone is eager to prove their ancestry to Pocahantas because of her fame, Cleopatra was the only one to ascend to actual Queen. Pocahantas, for all her fame, was a mere Princess. The modern day Native American line of this family adapted the surname Powhatan from very early times.

Jamestown

Jamestown

Hans Michael Schmidt, Seventh Great-Grandfather

December 14, 2017 2 Comments

Spotswood Headrights

Spotswood Headrights

My seventh great-grandfather came to Virginia in 1717 with a group of Lutheran immigrants.  Their unscrupulous ship captain not only landed at the wrong port, but sold them into indentured servitude. Captain Andrew Tarbett had spent the passage given him by the Germans, then took them to Virginia rather than their promised destination, Pennsylvania. He sold them to Lt.Governor Alexander Spotswood.

Lieutenant Governor Alexander Spotswood’s lawsuits against his indentured servants. From 1723 through 1726, Spotswood claimed that several Germans had failed to carry out the terms of their “contract” with him. My ancestor was sued in 1924.  He proved his importation in 1926 with his wife on the ship Scott.  He patented land on June 24, 1926.

These emigrants left their villages in southern Germany (Baden and Württemberg) about 12 Jul 1717 enroute for Pennsylvania by way of London. Starvation took the lives of several of the passengers (probably 50 people perished, most of them children) who had been swindled by their captain who was retained in London. The ship held about 138 passengers and did not land in Pennsylvania but to Virginia where the passengers were sold as indentured servants to Governor Spotswood.

The base for this reconstructed list comes from:

  • Before Germanna by Gary J. Zimmerman and Johni Cerny
  • ÄThe Second Germanna Colony of 1717, Other Germanna Pioneers, the So-called Third Germanna Colony of 1719, and Late Comers to the Hebron Church Community” by B.C. Holtzclaw in The Germanna Record (1965) 6: 51-74.

Research by Zimmerman & Cerny has shown that several who were thought to have come to Virginia in 1719-1720 were actually more likely part of the 1717 group. The strongest evidence for this is the absence of any references to each of these families in Germany after 1716 and the fact that they would have left from others from the same town at that time.

Hans Michael Johann Schmidt Smith (1690 – 1761)
7th great-grandfather
John Felter Smith (1710 – 1793)
son of Hans Michael Johann Schmidt Smith
Johannes John SCHMIDT SMITH (1742 – 1814)
son of John Felter Smith
Henry Smith (1780 – 1859)
son of Johannes John SCHMIDT SMITH
Swain Smith (1805 – 1885)
son of Henry Smith
Jerimiah Smith (1845 – )
son of Swain Smith
Minnie M Smith (1872 – 1893)
daughter of Jerimiah Smith
Ernest Abner Morse (1890 – 1965)
son of Minnie M Smith
Richard Arden Morse (1920 – 2004)
son of Ernest Abner Morse
Pamela Morse
I am the daughter of Richard Arden Morse

Note: Hans is short for Johannes which is John in English
Below research provided courtesy of Tom Bowen:
“From “Before Germanna,” by Johni Cerni and Gary J. Zimmerman, No. 5,
January 1990, The Ancestry of the Sheible, Peck, Milker Smith and Holt Families:
“The Evangelical Lutheran minister [for Gemmingen, Baden] began a new set of parish registers in 1693, and the marriage entries of the Schmidt brothers are recorded therein:
married 21 January 1710 Hanns Michael Schmid, son of Michael Schmid, deceased, court official here, step-son of Alt [Old]
Hans Hecker, to Anna Margaretha, daughter of deceased Josoph Sauter, deceased courth official here.”

On 12 July 1717 the minister at Gemmingen listed in the parish death register the “parents, together with their children, [who] expect to move away from here, wanting to take ship to Pennsylvania, and there in the hardship of the wilderness better their piece of bread than they could here.” Included were:
Hans Michael Schmidt, age 28
wife Anna Margaretha, same age,
son Hans Michael, age 5 1/2
son Christopher, age 1/2
his in-laws.
Also listed was Matthäus Schmidt, age 25/30, wife Regina Catherina, same age, son Matthäus, age 3 1/2 and daughter Anna Margaretha, age 1/2.

They arrived in Virginia near Germanna in then Essex Co., now Culpeper Co., in late 1717 or early 1718 according to today’s calendar, being members of the so-called second Germanna Colony of 1717. The colony moved about 25 miles west to the Robinson River area of Spotsylvania Co. in 1725. This area became Orange Co. in 1734, Culpeper Co. in 1748, and Madison Co. in 1793.”

We have a copy of his will:

25 Feb. 1760, from Culpeper Co. Will Book A, p. 243:

In the name of God Amen, I John Michael Smith of the Parish of Brumfield in Culpeper County being old weak & helpless, but thanks be unto God of perfect Mind and Memory, & calling unto Mind the Mortality of my Body & knowing it is appointed for all men once to die, do make & ordain this my last will and Testament. That is to say principally & first of all I give & recommend my Soul into the Hands of Almighty God that gave it, & my Body I recommend to the Earth to be buried in decent Christian Burial nothing doubting that at the General Resurrection I shall receive the same again, by the mighty Power of God. and as touching such worldly Estate wherewith it hath pleased God to bless me in this Life, I do give demise & dispose of the same in the following manner & form, viz.
I do give bequeath & make over unto my dearly beloved only Son John Michael Smith Junior & his heirs forever all my Estate personal as well as real, that he may take the sole & full Possession of it, & all the Lands Goods & Chattels forever after my decease, reserving unto me only the Claim to my Estate as long as I live, & thereby I do revoke & disannull all Wills made before by me & I do acknowledge to be this my last Will & Testament never to be revoked

Signed Sealed & delivered Witness my Hand & Seal
in the presence of us
in the year of our Lord God Michael Schmid?
1760. 25th of February (signed in German)
Adam (AY) Jager,
Henry Ayler
At Court held for the County of Culpeper on Thursday the 19th day of February 1761 This last Will and Testament of John Michael Smith decd was exhibited to the Court by John Michael Smith his only son & heir and the Executor therein named and was proved by the oaths of Adam Yeager & Henry Aylor Witnesses thereto and ordered to be recorded and on the motion of the said Executor Certificate is granted him for obtaining a Probate thereof he giving Bond & Security according to Law and also took the oath of an Executor.

 

SaveSave

Inquisitor

November 17, 2017 1 Comment

haunted gate

haunted gate

Contrary and contorted, the inquisitor retreated
To study the rules and regulations for details
To bribe the authorities to seek the maximum
Penalty for betraying the monarchy and the court
Treason and heresy had been found in high places
Now the entire population had to fear for the future
Chaos had consumed the wealth and the wisdom
Once widely respected in this now violent place
Leaving widows, orphans, haunted institutions
Of what was once called being on the right side of history

The Inquisitor

The Inquisitor

Arizona Highways Halloween Edition

October 26, 2017 3 Comments

Halloween car

Halloween car

I love living in Arizona. I used to travel around the world all the time. In fact, I was a travel agent for years, living the good life on the gravy train of the travel industry. The market has changed significantly and the service on airlines is not as great as it was in the past. I used miles to upgrade my international flights to business class back in the day, but those seats are never available with miles now. The super gold elite platinum members suck those all down for themselves. I no longer fly or collect airline miles for the future. I am happy as a tourist in my own spectacular state.  We have it all, including the Grand Canyon.

I recently downsized my possessions and bought a Mini Cooper to drive.  The change brings money into my budget and a fun tiny car that meets my needs perfectly.  I drove the car recently to Phoenix for the Cannabis Expo weekend.  It is super easy to park and easy to drive.  My wanderlust for the open road has been revived by my new wheels.  When I first saw the car I did not like it because it is orange and black.  I have come to adore the colors, and think it is a snazzy sporty look.  I will drive it down to Tombstone and Bisbee tomorrow for a Halloween weekend visit.  Bisbee is all about haunting and history. Tombstone is all about gunslinging, Doc and Wyatt.

The drive is an easy two hours, about the same as Phoenix, from home.  I will stop in Tombstone on the way down then take a day trip to Douglas on Saturday.  Douglas was once a very wealthy smelter town for the Bisbee copper mine.  The Louis Comfort Tiffany Window in the Hotel Gadsden is a remnant of those high rolling times.  It is worth the drive to Douglas to see that window.  Tombstone, Bisbee, and Douglas grew up around mines.  The history of the wild west is still celebrated, particularly around Halloween.  It will be a fantastic retreat, as well as a bargain for the cost.  I feel lucky to have so many excellent and varied destinations to discover by a short drive.

 

#WeekendCoffeeShare America The Beautiful

August 19, 2017 4 Comments

Believe That

Believe That

If we were having coffee this weekend I would offer you iced tea and some succotash I just made.  I have been listening to a wonderful audio course about this culinary and cultural history of humanity.  I heard the part about American colonists adopting crops from natives very quickly because many crops they brought from England did not grow over here.  Succotash (a word borrowed from a native language) is a stew of corn, beans, onions, peppers, and tomatoes.  It can be made with only corn and beans if need be.  I realized I had those groceries on hand in the fridge so I whipped up a batch.  It is a heavenly, and truly American dish.  Help yourself.  I am working on reminding myself of all the noble and beautiful parts of having been born in the US.  Succotash is one of those.

If we were having coffee I know many of you live in other countries and are wondering what in the world is happening to the government in Washington, DC.  As taxpaying citizens, believe me, we wonder even more than you do.  Some people choose to stay away from news of current events, and honestly I am happy to be working with millennials who virtually never discuss anything current or political.  I don’t think it is because they lack sympathy, but they really lack all the information. I am loathe to bring up any news at work because it is all so shockingly bad.  Who am I to bum them out by letting them in on current events?  I really like my colleagues at work.  Maybe ignoring current events is the secret of their charm.

I wrote this week, but was still a little lame about production.  I did a poem for Sue Vincent’s #writephoto on Thursday.  I wrote a factual biography of my great-grandfather who fought for the Confederacy in the Civil War.  I also have ancestors who fought for the Union and even worked on the underground railroad.  I am not in any way attracted to these “historic monuments” causing all this dispute.  I don’t think they were such a good idea in the first place, since Americans tend to be fairly ignorant of our own history.  We just don’t need images to glorify people and events nobody even understands.  I know this is not true for all of us, but I am frequently appalled at the total lack of knowledge about geography and history I encounter in Americans.

The one category in which we are still held in some esteem is comedy.  SNL is the world leader that demonstrates that we do still live in a free country.  Some of our freedom is being used to endanger and incarcerate part of the population. Thank God we still have Weekend Update. For any of you who have not seen #sheetcaking by Tina Fey, please enjoy this peek at our still thriving sense of humor.  If we don’t laugh we will cry.

https://youtu.be/WqDIAH64wyo

Please join us for the Weekend Coffee Share every week.  Our hostess Diana brings us together from New Orleans her blog PartTimeMonster to share our feelings, our progress, and our digital beverages. Thanks for reading, writing, or commenting this week.

#WeekendCoffeeShare

#WeekendCoffeeShare

William Ellison Taylor, Great-Grandfather

August 15, 2017 1 Comment

William and Lucinda

William and Lucinda

My maternal great-grandfather fought for the Confederacy in the Civil War. I have a copy of the military records and pension applications for my maternal  great-grandfather, William Ellison Taylor. He enlisted in the Civil War on April 26, 1861, Company C, 4th Regiment, Alabama Regiment of Volunteers, under the command of Captain N.H.R. Dawson. He was injured at the Battle of First Manassas, Virginia, on July 21, 1861. He was discharged October 22, 1861.  His great-grandfather, Jonathan Aaron Taylor, fought in the Revolutionary War in South Carolina. After the Civil war William and his wife’s family moved to East Texas and bought land. He became a preacher.

William Ellison Taylor

William Ellison Taylor

The following is from Gospel Preachers Who Blazed the Trail by C. R. Nichol, 1911.

William Ellyson Taylor was born in Alabama, November 22, 1839, and was reared in that state. His education was received in the common schools. When the war broke out between the states he enlisted in the 4th Alabama Regiment and went to Virginia. In the battle of Manassas. July 21, 1861, he was wounded, which made him a cripple for life.

Dec. 27. 1864, he was married to Lucinda Armer, who has been his faithful help-meet, and to the present shares his joys and sorrows. To this union six boys and two girl have been born.

November, 1869, he moved to Texas. In August, 1874, Dr. W. L. Harrison preached the first sermon he ever heard. Afterward and and David Pennington became a Christian. In 1877 he began preaching and though he works on the farm, he has preached as he found opportunity. Entering the firgin field he has established congregations in Montgomery, San Jacinto and Walker counties and is now preaching monthly for congregations at Willis, Bethan and Ne Bethel, Montgomery County. When confined for nearly two years through sickness his brethren administer to his every need. All who know Bro. Taylor love him for his intrinsic worth and work in the Lord.

Gospel Preachers Who Blazed the Trail by C. R. Nichol, 1911.

William Ellison Taylor (1839 – 1918)
great-grandfather
George Harvey Taylor (1884 – 1941)
son of William Ellison Taylor
Ruby Lee Taylor (1922 – 2008)
daughter of George Harvey Taylor
Pamela Morse
I am the daughter of Ruby Lee Taylor
Ruby Lee was named after Robert E Lee.  She changed the spelling to Lea later in her life. My father’s ancestors fought for the Union army and worked on the underground railroad.

Alexios I Emperor of the Byzantine Empire Comnenus

June 5, 2017 1 Comment

Alexios I

Alexios I

Alexios I Komnenos, or Comnenus (Greek: Αλέξιος Α’ Κομνηνός) (1048 – August 15, 1118), Byzantine emperor (1081–1118), was the son of John Comnenus and Anna Dalassena and the nephew of Isaac I Comnenus (emperor 1057–1059). The military, financial and territorial recovery of the Byzantine Empire began in his reign.
Life
Alexius’ father declined the throne on the abdication of Isaac, who was accordingly succeeded by four emperors of other families between 1059 and 1081. Under one of these emperors, Romanus IV Diogenes (1067–1071), he served with distinction against the Seljuk Turks. Under Michael VII Ducas Parapinaces (1071–1078) and Nicephorus III Botaneiates (1078–1081), he was also employed, along with his elder brother Isaac, against rebels in Asia Minor, Thrace and in Epirus.
Alexius’ mother wielded great influence during his reign, and he is described by his daughter, the historian Anna Comnena, as running next to the imperial chariot that she drove. In 1074, the rebel mercenaries in Asia Minor were successfully subdued, and, in 1078, he was appointed commander of the field army in the West by Nicephorus III. In this capacity, Alexius defeated the rebellions of two successive governors of Dyrrhachium, Nicephorus Bryennius (whose son or grandson later married Alexius’ daughter Anna) and Nicephorus Basilakes. Alexius was ordered to march against his brother-in-law Nicephorus Melissenus in Asia Minor but refused to fight his kinsman. This did not, however, lead to a demotion, as Alexius was needed to counter the expected Norman invasion led by Robert Guiscard near Dyrrhachium.
While the Byzantine troops were assembling for the expedition, Alexius was approached by the Ducas faction at court, who convinced him to join a conspiracy against Nicephorus III. Alexius was duly proclaimed emperor by his troops and marched on Constantinople. Bribing the western mercenaries guarding the city, the rebels entered Constantinople in triumph, meeting little resistance on April 1, 1081. Nicephorus III was forced to abdicate and retire to a monastery, and Patriarch Cosmas I crowned Alexius I emperor on April 4.
During this time, Alexius was rumored to be the lover of Empress Maria of Alania, the daughter of King Bagrat IV of Georgia, who had been successively married to Michael VII Ducas and his successor Nicephorus III Botaneiates, and was renowned for her beauty. Alexius arranged for Maria to stay on the palace grounds. It was also thought that Alexius may have been considering marrying the erstwhile empress. However, his mother consolidated the Ducas family connection by arranging the Emperor’s marriage to Irene Ducaena, granddaughter of the Caesar John Ducas, the uncle of Michael VII, who would not have supported Alexius otherwise. As a measure intended to keep the support of the Ducae, Alexius restored Constantine Ducas, the young son of Michael VII and Maria, as co-emperor and a little later betrothed him to his own first-born daughter Anna, who moved into the Mangana Palace with her fiancé and his mother.
However, this situation changed drastically when Alexius’ first son John II Comnenus was born in 1087: Anna’s engagement to Constantine was dissolved, and she was moved to the main Palace to live with her mother and grandmother. Alexius became estranged from Maria, who was stripped of her imperial title and retired to a monastery, and Constantine Ducas was deprived of his status as co-emperor. Nevertheless, he remained in good relations with the imperial family and succumbed to his weak constitution soon afterwards.
This coin was struck by Alexius during his war against Robert Guiscard.
Byzantine-Norman Wars
Alexius’ long reign of nearly thirty-seven years was full of struggle. At the very outset, he had to meet the formidable attack of the Normans (led by Robert Guiscard and his son Bohemund), who took Dyrrhachium and Corfu, and laid siege to Larissa in Thessaly (see Battle of Dyrrhachium). Alexius suffered several defeats before being able to strike back with success. He enhanced this by bribing the German king Henry IV with 360,000 gold pieces to attack the Normans in Italy, which forced the Normans to concentrate on their defenses at home in 1083–1084. He also secured the alliance of Henry, Count of Monte Sant’Angelo, who controlled the Gargano Peninsula and dated his charters by Alexius’ reign. Henry’s allegiance was to be the last example of Byzantine political control on peninsular Italy. The Norman danger ended for the time being with Robert Guiscard’s death in 1085, and the Byzantines recovered most of their losses.
Alexius had next to deal with disturbances in Thrace, where the heretical sects of the Bogomils and the Paulicians revolted and made common cause with the Pechenegs from beyond the Danube. Paulician soldiers in imperial service likewise deserted during Alexius’ battles with the Normans. As soon as the Norman threat had passed, Alexius set out to punish the rebels and deserters, confiscating their lands. This led to a further revolt near Philippopolis, and the commander of the field army in the west, Gregory Pakourianos, was defeated and killed in the ensuing battle. In 1087 the Pechenegs raided into Thrace and Alexius crossed into Moesia to retaliate but failed to take Dorostolon (Silistra). During his retreat, the emperor was surrounded and worn down by the Pechenegs, who forced him to sign a truce and pay protection money. In 1090 the Pechenegs invaded Thrace again, while the brother-in-law of the Sultan of Rum launched a fleet and attempted to arrange a joing siege of Constantinople with the Pechenegs. Alexius overcame this crisis by entering into an alliance with a horde of 40,000 Cumans, with whose help he crushed the Pechenegs at Levounion in Thrace on April 29, 1091.
The Byzantine Empire at the accession of Alexius I Comnenus, c. 1081
This put an end to the Pecheneg threat, but in 1094 the Cumans began to raid the imperial territories in the Balkans. Led by a pretender claiming to be Constantine Diogenes, a long-dead son of the Emperor Romanos IV, the Cumans crossed the mountains and raided into eastern Thrace until their leader was eliminated at Adrianople. With the Balkans more or less pacified, Alexius could now turn his attention to Asia Minor, which had been almost completely overrun by the Seljuk Turks.
Byzantine-Seljuk Wars
As early as 1090, Alexius had taken reconciliatory measures towards the Papacy, with the intention of seeking western support against the Seljuks. In 1095 his ambassadors appeared before Pope Urban II at the Council of Piacenza. The help which he wanted from the West was simply mercenary forces and not the immense hosts which arrived, to his consternation and embarrassment, after the pope preached the First Crusade at the Council of Clermont later that same year. Not quite ready to supply this number of people as they traversed his territories, the emperor saw his Balkan possessions subjected to further pillage at the hands of his own allies. Alexius dealt with the first disorganized group of crusaders, led by the preacher Peter the Hermit, by sending them on to Asia Minor, where they were massacred by the Turks in 1096.
The second and much more formidable host of crusaders gradually made its way to Constantinople, led in sections by Godfrey of Bouillon, Bohemund of Taranto, Raymond IV of Toulouse and other important members of the western nobility. Alexius used the opportunity of meeting the crusader leaders separately as they arrived and extracting from them oaths of homage and the promise to turn over conquered lands to the Byzantine Empire. Transferring each contingent into Asia, Alexius promised to supply them with provisions in return for their oaths of homage. The crusade was a notable success for Byzantium, as Alexius now recovered for the Byzantine Empire a number of important cities and islands. The crusader siege of Nicaea forced the city to surrender to the emperor in 1097, and the subsequent crusader victory at Dorylaion allowed the Byzantine forces to recover much of western Asia Minor. Here Byzantine rule was reestablished in Chios, Rhodes, Smyrna, Ephesus, Sardis, and Philadelphia in 1097–1099. This success is ascribed by his daughter Anna to his policy and diplomacy, but by the Latin historians of the crusade to his treachery and falseness. In 1099, a Byzantine fleet of 10 ships were sent to assist the Crusaders in capturing Laodicea and other coastal towns as far as Tripoli. The crusaders believed their oaths were made invalid when the Byzantine contingent under Tatikios failed to help them during the siege of Antioch; Bohemund, who had set himself up as Prince of Antioch, briefly went to war with Alexius in the Balkans, but was blockaded by the Byzantine forces and agreed to become Alexius’ vassal by the Treaty of Devol in 1108.
Personal life
During the last twenty years of his life Alexius lost much of his popularity. The years were marked by persecution of the followers of the Paulician and Bogomil heresies—one of his last acts was to publicly burn on the stake Basil, a Bogomil leader, with whom he had engaged in a theological dispute. In spite of the success of the crusade, Alexius also had to repel numerous attempts on his territory by the Seljuks in 1110–1117.
Alexius was for many years under the strong influence of an eminence grise, his mother Anna Dalassena, a wise and immensely able politician whom, in a uniquely irregular fashion, he had crowned as Augusta instead of the rightful claimant to the title, his wife Irene Ducaena. Dalassena was the effective administrator of the Empire during Alexius’ long absences in military campaigns: she was constantly at odds with her daughter-in-law and had assumed total responsibility for the upbringing and education of her granddaughter Anna Comnena.
Succession
Alexius’ last years were also troubled by anxieties over the succession. Although he had crowned his son John II Comnenus co-emperor at the age of five in 1092, John’s mother Irene Doukaina wished to alter the succession in favor of her daughter Anna and Anna’s husband, Nicephorus Bryennius. Bryennios had been made kaisar (Caesar) and received the newly-created title of panhypersebastos (“honoured above all”), and remained loyal to both Alexius and John. Nevertheless, the intrigues of Irene and Anna disturbed even Alexius’ dying hours.
Legacy
Alexius I had stabilized the Byzantine Empire and overcome a dangerous crisis, inaugurating a century of imperial prosperity and success. He had also profoundly altered the nature of the Byzantine government. By seeking close alliances with powerful noble families, Alexius put an end to the tradition of imperial exclusivity and coopted most of the nobility into his extended family and, through it, his government. This measure, which was intended to diminish opposition, was paralleled by the introduction of new courtly dignities, like that of panhypersebastos given to Nicephorus Bryennius, or that of sebastokrator given to the emperor’s brother Isaac Comnenus. Although this policy met with initial success, it gradually undermined the relative effectiveness of imperial bureaucracy by placing family connections over merit. Alexius’ policy of integration of the nobility bore the fruit of continuity: every Byzantine emperor who reigned after Alexius I Comnenus was related to him by either descent or marriage.
Family
By his marriage with Irene Ducaena, Alexius I had the following children:
Anna Komnene, who married the Caesar Nicephorus Bryennius.
Maria Komnene, who married (1) Gregory Gabras and (2) Nicephorus Euphorbenos Katakalon.
John II Komnenos, who succeeded as emperor.
Andronikos Comnenus, sebastokratōr.
Isaac Comnenus, sebastokratōr.
Eudocia Komnene, who married Michael Iasites.
Theodora Komnene, who married (1) Constantine Kourtikes and (2) Constantine Angelos. By him she was the grandmother of Emperors Isaac II Angelos and Alexios III Angelos.
Manuel Komnenos.
Zoe Komnene.

Alexios I Emperor of the Byzantine Empire Comnenus(1048 – 1118)
28th great-grandfather
Theodora Comnena (1096 – 1139)
daughter of Alexios I Emperor of the Byzantine Empire Comnenus
Andronikos Dukas Angelos (1122 – 1185)
son of Theodora Comnena
Alexios Emperor Byzantine Empire (1153 – 1204)
son of Andronikos Dukas Angelos
Empress Anna Komnene Angelina Nicaea (1176 – 1212)
daughter of Alexios Emperor Byzantine Empire
MARIA Laskarina (1206 – 1270)
daughter of Empress Anna Komnene Angelina Nicaea
King of Hungary Stephen V (1240 – 1277)
son of MARIA Laskarina
Marie DeHungary (1257 – 1323)
daughter of King of Hungary Stephen V
Marguerite Sicily Naples (1273 – 1299)
daughter of Marie DeHungary
Jeanne DeVALOIS (1294 – 1342)
daughter of Marguerite Sicily Naples
Philippa deHainault (1311 – 1369)
daughter of Jeanne DeVALOIS
John of Gaunt – Duke of Lancaster – Plantagenet (1340 – 1399)
son of Philippa deHainault
Elizabeth Plantagenet (1363 – 1425)
daughter of John of Gaunt – Duke of Lancaster – Plantagenet
John Holland (1395 – 1447)
son of Elizabeth Plantagenet
Henry Holland (1430 – 1475)
son of John Holland
Henry Holland (1485 – 1561)
son of Henry Holland
Henry Holland (1527 – 1561)
son of Henry Holland
John Holland (1556 – 1628)
son of Henry Holland
Gabriell Francis Holland (1596 – 1660)
son of John Holland
John Holland (1628 – 1710)
son of Gabriell Francis Holland
Mary Elizabeth Holland (1620 – 1681)
daughter of John Holland
Richard Dearden (1645 – 1747)
son of Mary Elizabeth Holland
George Dearden (1705 – 1749)
son of Richard Dearden
George Darden (1734 – 1807)
son of George Dearden
David Darden (1770 – 1820)
son of George Darden
Minerva Truly Darden (1806 – 1837)
daughter of David Darden
Sarah E Hughes (1829 – 1911)
daughter of Minerva Truly Darden
Lucinda Jane Armer (1847 – 1939)
daughter of Sarah E Hughes
George Harvey Taylor (1884 – 1941)
son of Lucinda Jane Armer
Ruby Lee Taylor (1922 – 2008)
daughter of George Harvey Taylor
Pamela Morse
I am the daughter of Ruby Lee Taylor
Council of the Crusaders

Council of the Crusaders

Elizabeth Cheney, 17th Great-Grandmother

May 5, 2017 2 Comments

St Augustine, Broxbourne, Herts

St Augustine, Broxbourne, Herts

Elizabeth Cheney (1420 – 1473)
17th great-grandmother
Elizabeth Tilney (1450 – 1497)
daughter of Elizabeth Cheney
Lord Thomas Howard (1473 – 1554)
son of Elizabeth Tilney
Lady Katherine Howard Duchess Bridgewater (1495 – 1554)
daughter of Lord Thomas Howard
William ApRhys (1522 – 1588)
son of Lady Katherine Howard Duchess Bridgewater
Henry Rice (1555 – 1621)
son of William ApRhys
Edmund Rice (1594 – 1663)
son of Henry Rice
Edward Rice (1622 – 1712)
son of Edmund Rice
Lydia Rice (1649 – 1723)
daughter of Edward Rice
Lydia Woods (1672 – 1738)
daughter of Lydia Rice
Lydia Eager (1696 – 1735)
daughter of Lydia Woods
Mary Thomas (1729 – 1801)
daughter of Lydia Eager
Joseph Morse III (1756 – 1835)
son of Mary Thomas
John Henry Morse (1775 – 1864)
son of Joseph Morse III
Abner Morse (1808 – 1838)
son of John Henry Morse
Daniel Rowland Morse (1838 – 1910)
son of Abner Morse
Jason A Morse (1862 – 1932)
son of Daniel Rowland Morse
Ernest Abner Morse (1890 – 1965)
son of Jason A Morse
Richard Arden Morse (1920 – 2004)
son of Ernest Abner Morse
Pamela Morse
I am the daughter of Richard Arden Morse

Elizabeth Cheney (April 1422 – 25 September 1473) was an English aristocrat, who, by dint of her two marriages, was the great-grandmother of Anne Boleyn, Jane Seymour, and Catherine Howard, three of the wives of King Henry VIII of England, thus making her great-great-grandmother to King Edward VI, the son of Henry VIII and Jane Seymour, and Elizabeth I, the daughter of Henry VIII and Anne Boleyn. Her first husband was SirFrederick Tilney, and her second husband was Sir John Say, Speaker of the House of Commons. She produced a total of nine children from both marriages.
Born in Fen Ditton, Cambridgeshire in April 1422, she was the eldest child of Laurence or Lawrence Cheney or Cheyne, Esq. (c. 1396 – 1461), High Sheriff of Cambridgeshire and Elizabeth Cokayn or Cokayne[1] She had three younger sisters, Anne, wife of John Appleyard; Mary, wife of John Allington; Catherine, wife of Henry Barley, and one brother, Sir John Cheney who married Elizabeth Rempston, by whom he had issue. Sir John Cheney and his wife are ancestors of U.S. Vice President Dick Cheney. She had two half-brothers by her mother’s first marriage to Sir Philip Butler.

Her paternal grandparents were Sir William Cheney and Katherine Pabenham, and her maternal grandparents were Sir John Cockayne, Chief Baron of the Exchequer and Ida de Grey, the daughter of Reginald Grey, 2nd Baron Grey de Ruthyn and Eleanor Le Strange of Blackmere.[2]

Anne Boleyn, granddaughter of Elizabeth Tilney, eldest daughter of Elizabeth Cheney

On an unknown date, Elizabeth Cheney married her first husband Sir Frederick Tilney, of Ashwellthorpe, Norfolk, and Boston, Lincolnshire. He was the son of Sir Philip Tilney and Isabel Thorpe. They made their principal residence at Ashwellthorpe Manor. The couple had one daughter:

Elizabeth Tilney (before 1445 – 4 April 1497), married firstly in about 1466, Sir Humphrey Bourchier, by whom she had three children; and secondly on 30 April 1472, Thomas Howard, Earl of Surrey, who later became the 2nd Duke of Norfolk, by whom she had nine children. These children included Thomas Howard, 3rd Duke of Norfolk, Elizabeth Howard, mother of Anne Boleyn, and Lord Edmund Howard, father of Catherine Howard.
Sir Frederick Tilney died in 1445, leaving their young daughter Elizabeth as heiress to his estates. Shortly before 1 December 1446, Elizabeth Cheney married secondly Sir John Say, of Broxbourne, Hertfordshire, Speaker of the House of Commons, and a member of the household of King Henry VI. He was a member of the embassy, led by William de la Pole, which was sent to France in 1444 to negotiate with King Charles VII for the marriage between King Henry and Margaret of Anjou.[3] Her father settled land worth fifty marks clear per annum upon the couple and their issue before Candlemas, 1453. They made their home at Broxbourne, Hertfordshire.

Sir John Say and Elizabeth had three sons and four daughters:

Sir William Say (1452- 1529), of Baas (in Broxbourne), Bedwell (in Essendon), Bennington, Little Berkhampstead, and Sawbridgeworth, Hertfordshire, Lawford, Essex, Market Overton, Rutland, etc., Burgess (M.P.) for Plympton, Knight of the Shire for Hertfordshire, Sheriff of Somerset and Dorset, 1478–9, Sheriff of Essex and Hertfordshire, 1482–3, Justice of the Peace for Hertfordshire, 1486–1506, and, in right of his 1st wife, of East Lydford, Radstock, Spaxton, Wellesleigh, and Wheathill, Somerset, and, in right of his 2nd wife, of Wormingford Hall (in Wormingford), Essex, Great Munden, Hertfordshire, etc. He married (1st) before 18 November 1472 (date of letters of attorney) Genevieve Hill, daughter/heiress of John Hill, of Spaxton, Somerset. She was still alive in 1478. He married (2nd) shortly after 18 April 1480 Elizabeth Fray, widow of Sir Thomas Waldegrave, by whom he had two daughters, Mary Say and Elizabeth Say.
Mary, the eldest daughter married Henry Bourchier, 1st Earl of Essex and 6th Baron Bourchier, by whom she had one daughter, Anne Bourchier, 7th Baroness Bourchier.

Thomas Say, of Liston Hall, Essex.
Leonard Say, clerk, Rector of Spaxton, Somerset. See Testamenta Eboracensia, 4 (Surtees Soc. 53) (1869): 86–88 (will of Leonard Say, clerk).
Anne Say (died 1478/1494), married Henry Wentworth, K.B., of Nettlestead, Suffolk, Goxhill, Lincolnshire, Parlington and Pontefract, Yorkshire, and of London, Esquire of the Household, Knight of the Body, Sheriff of Norfolk and Suffolk, 1481–82, Sheriff of Yorkshire, 1489–90, 1492, Knight of the Shire for Yorkshire, 1491–92, by whom she had issue, including Margery Wentworth, mother of Jane Seymour.
Mary Say, married Sir Philip Calthorpe, Knt., by whom she had issue.
Margaret Say, married Thomas Sampson, Esq.
Katherine Say, married Thomas Bassingbourne.

Fen Ditton from River Cam

Fen Ditton from River Cam